Massachusetts Women at the Bar – a Candid Roundtable Discussion Among Generations

On July 16, 2025, The Boston Bar Journal Board of Editors welcomed 12 women attorneys from across the profession for a roundtable conversation about practicing law, past, present, and future in Boston, facilitated by BBJ Co-Chair Judge Squires-Lee.

Judge Squires-Lee: Welcome. I am so delighted to be facilitating this roundtable discussion. We really gathered an esteemed group of women lawyers at the height of their legal careers and also a group of very talented women lawyers newer to the practice of law. So, I’m delighted that we’re all here to share our experiences.

Experienced Attorneys’ Reflections on Entering the Legal Profession

Judge Squires-Lee: I’m going to start with asking the folks who’ve been at the bar more than twenty years. What do you remember most vividly about entering the profession, and how it felt to be a woman lawyer?

Lili Palacios-Baldwin: I’ll say a couple of things. I went to Northeastern Law School, which served me well because I did some co-ops before I started with a firm. But I was struck by how much I needed to learn about the firm and the culture and how to interact with lawyers. All of the partners who worked in my practice group were men, and much older than me. I remember trying to learn how to get invited to meetings, how to connect with folks in a way that would help me to advance. When I look back, at that time it wasn’t just as a woman and a younger woman, but also as a woman of color. In that particular office, there were very few lawyers of color, and that was in my mind at the time as I was learning how to navigate the firm. Eventually I figured it out and one of those partners became one of the most impactful mentors I’ve had in my career.

Judge Squires-Lee: Interesting. Anybody else feel that sense of having to learn how to navigate a new environment?

Natashia Tidwell: I came to the law after being in the police department, which was a male dominated, sort of paramilitary organization. So, when I entered the legal profession, my experience was unlike anyone else’s. You know, gender and race obviously sort of played a role throughout my career, and I’m sure we’ll talk about all of that, but early on what I remember trying to navigate was, well, how do I fit here? And you know, I think I’ve been trying to answer that question throughout my career for different reasons. It’s sort of like, well, how do I fit as woman? Or how do I fit as a Black woman? It’s always been sort of a question bubble over my head. Just the text may have changed as I’ve gone along.

Lisa Goodheart: What I remember most from the very beginning was that I wanted to be in litigation, and I joined a big firm in Philadelphia. There were very few senior women, and very few women partners. I don’t think there were any in the litigation department, so I was looking for role models.

There were certainly women lawyers who were senior to me, so I focused on them. Let me get to the next level, and then we’ll see. But I also remember that it was a time when the uniform for young women lawyers was the dress for success suit, with the floppy bow and the pumps. I just felt like I was putting on a costume every day. And I really struggled with how to feel comfortable, looking like a lawyer. I don’t know if I did it long enough that it just became my real self, or what happened.

Sara Cable: Yeah, that deeply resonates with me as well. I obviously don’t present very feminine. I’m an open, out lesbian woman. For my whole adult life, it’s been that way. I was very careful about selecting the environment that I worked in because I wanted to be able to be my authentic self or as much of my authentic self as I could. And I also did not want to wear clothes that made me feel, you know, wildly uncomfortable, or be pressured to. I actually started practicing in San Francisco, where I went to law school, and then transferred to Boston.

I was concerned coming to Boston. You know, San Francisco is obviously quite liberal and a little more casual. I was actually very concerned, like, what are the expectations? And am I just going to be literally miserable every day? I was pleasantly surprised. I actually feel that my identity as a woman is more relevant now in terms of the way men treat me than it was when I was younger. I definitely sense the power dynamics a lot more.

Newer Attorneys’ Reflections on Entering the Legal Profession

Judge Squires-Lee: Thank you. What I’ve heard is some lack of comfort, some need to figure out how to navigate the space as a woman, and some concern, and difficulty connecting. It is certainly true that there was a lot of policing of women’s appearance when I became a lawyer. I never wore a pantsuit the first ten years. I was told I could not. Any of that concern or objectification resonate?

Lily Ramin Hall: Well, I have one experience. Obviously, there’s so many more women in the profession now, which is amazing, but a lot of times I still do find myself the only woman in the room, and one experience I had very shortly after I started practicing was, I went on site for client interviews with two male partners at the firm, and one of the people being interviewed, I think he was joking around, but he said, “Oh, so you’re like the Meghan Markle, right?” Megan Markle was the paralegal on Suits for a very long time, and this was a couple of months after I started practicing, and it certainly caught me off guard.

One of the partners swooped right in, and he said, “No, Lily is an associate in our litigation group. We only hire the best and brightest,” so on and so forth. So, I think, things have evolved a long way that there are so many allies sort of looking out for that issue when it does pop up.

Jessica Rahmoune: I think one of the things that resonated most with me so far is sort of trying to read the room constantly, to see where I was and what role I played in those rooms. I felt pretty lucky that I was getting to do the work that I wanted to do, and felt like I was getting great experience when I first joined the AG’s office.

I joined the litigation team, and it was a team of around ten people, a wide variety of experience and background. I was still the youngest person. I was also one of the few women of color on the team. I got a lot of encouraging feedback from everyone, especially from the senior attorneys, to speak up more, to feel more comfortable offering ideas, even if I was scared to.

Emery Donatelle: I think I have a little bit of a different experience, because there’s inter-office dynamics at play, and then there’s inter-courtroom dynamics at play. And it’s completely different. My feeling in the [D.A.’s] office is that it’s a larger proportion, I think, of women than you find in most other places. And so that helps the environment inside the office. Once you go across the street, I think it’s a little bit of a different story when it comes to everyone inside the courtroom.

The thing I struggled most with, professionally, when I started, was trying to assimilate to the people who were considered to be the best litigators. And those were the people who were the loudest and the most aggressive, and those were the men. You can have your own voice. You don’t need to be the loudest person. That’s not my style, but it was hard to know that you don’t need to be like that person. In the courtroom, I was trying to find an identity that’s distinct as a woman. You can be yourself and not have to try to be like everyone else in that room.

Catherine Walker-Jacks: I feel very gratified to be surrounded by so many very ambitious young women. I think there have been a lot of improvements in the more blatant things. But things can still happen – for example, being a young woman, and especially working with male teams, the assumption that you’re the assistant, or whatever else. And I think, in those situations, it is really important that the person with the most privilege in that situation recognizes that. And I think for us who are white women that it’s also important to recognize our privilege and call out microaggressions and things like that. But I’m very happy to see that a lot has changed. And I’m looking forward to seeing the percentage of women be large, not just in junior attorneys, but to actually make its way through the pipeline up to partners, and judges and everything.

Erika Richmond Walton: I think I have a slightly different experience, because I work for a nonprofit, and have only ever worked for non-profits. So before I was at [Lawyers for Civil Rights], I was at the UNC Chapel Hill Center for Civil Rights, and began my career at Legal Aid of North Carolina. There’s a lot of room for self-expression in non-profits, you know, unless you have a board meeting, or a hearing. As long as you’re clothed, what you have on is generally appropriate.

At Legal Aid I was one of very few Black attorneys. I worked in Eastern North Carolina, a very high concentration of poverty. Almost all of our clients were Black, and I noticed that a lot of my colleagues could be insensitive in the way that they talked about our clients. And so I felt like I always had a responsibility to educate them.

Reflections on Relationships Among, and Assumptions About, Women Lawyers

Michelle-Kim Cohen: In my era, there were a few women out there, but the one thing that is very different than it is now, is the women tended to really compete with one another, thinking that there was only one slot for a woman. And I feel that’s significantly changed. But back then your female allies were really hard to find. Because there was so much competition and so much stress. You weren’t necessarily just competing against the men. But I always felt very isolated and alone in some ways, because the men didn’t really understand you, or didn’t care to understand you. They viewed you as competition as well, but so did the women, and so I think there, that was another layer too.

Judge Squires-Lee: Had any of you experienced that? That competition amongst generations of women that came before you. What is it like now? What does allyship look like now? What are you seeing?

Sarah Yun I’ve definitely had that experience where I’ve had people in positions of power and privilege speaking up on my behalf. But I also think there are situations where issues come up that people just don’t even notice. I was at an arbitration in my first year and everyone was going around introducing themselves and shaking hands. Opposing counsel was going around and saying “hi” to everybody, and shaking hands, and looked at me, and then just decided I must not be counsel and you know, went away, and that was something that nobody noticed. I wasn’t going to make anything of it at that moment, but that was something people didn’t notice until I mentioned it later.

[With regards to Michelle’s,] experience of how women would have to be competitive in the past–I think there’s maybe always that inclination even now, when you’re in the minority. I think there is maybe a sense that you have to compete with the few people who are likely to stand out. But also on the flip side, being part of a community of color, and being part of groups of women, I think, have been the times when I felt the most supported, and the most like I belong, and where I can be the most myself in a way.

Reflections on Mentorship and Allyship

Judge Squires-Lee: So, we talked a lot about some challenges. I want to see if we can go around and talk about some places where it has been a powerful force in your career where you’ve had women supporting you. I had the great benefit of starting at Hill and Barlow. I am thinking of three women partners in litigation who were tremendous mentors when I started in 1997, Lisa [Goodheart] being one of them. So, I want to turn a little bit to the positive. What are you all seeing? What are we seeing in terms of allyship and support?

Sara Cable: I’ve had to have conversations with some senior lawyers about concerns of microaggressions occurring within the team. I needed to have a conversation with the senior person on the team to say you are setting the tone, and it is up to you, and we expect you to establish the code of conduct here, and what we’re hearing about is falling below that. And this person took the information in such a non-defensive manner. Saying, “Oh, wow! I see what you’re saying.” It was such a great conversation. And I don’t think that would have happened even five years ago. I think it would have been met with defensiveness and evasion, and resistance. It was met with open arms.

Michelle-Kim Cohen: I’ve been practicing more than half my career in-house, and in thinking about how we interact with law firms as outside counsel, I think that now a lot of companies, especially public companies are really caring what law firms look like, and caring about what their policies are, and holding law firms accountable. And so I think that is good for business as well. And people are more embracing, like, what is your DEI policy? How many female partners do you have? How many partners of color do you have? Those kinds of things. I work for a company that does a lot of public contracts. And so, we’re held to those standards by our customers, and those standards have to flow down, even down to the lawyers that we use as outside counsel. I just think there’s a little bit more public pressure. I also think law is sometimes some of the slowest to adapt some of those changes.

Lili Palacios-Baldwin: Right now, I work on an all-female legal team and we work in what feels like a supportive family. Every once in a while, somebody is just burnt, needs to take a vacation where nobody calls, and we just go cover [for her], and it’s good. And I’ll say one thing that happened in my career. My daughter was very ill after the pandemic, and I was really struggling, and I took a leave of absence to be with her, and to be with my family. And my boss came to my house to make sure that I was okay. I’m grateful for the supportive community that we have in the bar as well, because many of the women here have been like my sisters. So, I do think that’s something I have now and that’s wonderful. A little bit of a contrast to the competition that I heard about earlier.

Reflections on Professional and Personal Balance

Judge Squires-Lee: And that seems like it’s different, that it’s changing, that there’s a lot of support going on. Do you all feel that as well?

Erika Richmond Walton: We have a very similar experience at Lawyers for Civil Rights. We have a very female-centric staff, a lot of senior staff or moms. I’m not really newly married – almost two years, but, as I start to think about whether starting a family is in the cards for me, or something that I might want to do, I’ve really felt that I could be open about it at work, and that it wouldn’t change anything, that I would be supported. So that’s been pretty awesome.

Lisa Goodheart: I just want to say that I have noticed much more comfort in talking about, “sorry that date won’t work. I’ve got to take care of my aging parents.” “Sorry. That’s not a good time for me. You know my kid’s going through some stuff.” I’ve learned to do that. I remember that when I first came back to work from maternity leave, I was so nervous about how to juggle all of that, and the more I just wove my life into the conversation in a very matter of fact way, the more I felt like I didn’t need to mentally apologize for the fact.

Judge Squires-Lee: I’m curious to hear from the newer generation, is that really a non-negotiable – having a balance in your life? What do you all think about that?

Jessica Rahmoune: I feel pretty lucky so far in terms of my experience. I feel pretty privileged to have the standard of just sort of being open about trying to maintain a work-life balance and seeking advice or help about how to do it in the best way while still remaining professional and being taken seriously.

I remember the first time I [asked for sick time], I felt like I needed to like over-explain. And the very first reaction was, you don’t need to go there. You are an adult. Take the time as needed and feel comfortable doing so. I think it also allows for a level of trust that I wasn’t necessarily expecting, at least in this profession.

Sarah Yun: Things have definitely changed, especially since Covid, being more open to being flexible, and recognizing that even if you’re not in the office, you can still get work done.

I do think that there is a tension still where I’m hearing a lot from many people across different firms and different settings that I think sometimes, people make fun of Gen Z for being too firm on their boundaries. But there is kind of this sense that I’m getting, especially from those who have to supervise, or maybe do the work when it’s not getting done. Oh, yes, you have to live your life, but where is the line drawn between living your life, and also the work needs to get done?

Catherine Walker Jacks: Just a small anecdote, but something that I appreciate – traditionally, maybe it would be that moms would talk about doing “mom stuff.” What I appreciate now is that for parents in general, people, at least in my experience, are willing to say, “I have a sick kid tonight. I’m going to be offline,” or you know, “I’m doing X, Y, and Z with my kids,” and hearing it from both moms and dads. And I think that kind of shows that, anyone could be a working parent, and that those responsibilities can be shared. It’s heartening to see. It feels like things are being more evenly spread, responsibility wise.

Renee Inomata: Just following up on that, the attitudes in the past of “well, I suffered so you must suffer too,” I’ve seen that decrease significantly. I think people are sort of saying, wait a second. Why should we make everybody suffer? Because times have changed. People have changed, priorities have changed from the law firm practice. Our clients have changed, too. And the clients are used to having more of these conversations about prioritizing and balancing.

Sara Cable: Judge Squires-Lee, I think you have the email byline. Love that. I’ve never seen it before, but I love that, just so that everybody knows.

Judge Squires-Lee: It says that my work hours may be different than your work hours. Something like, don’t feel compelled to respond.

Sara Cable: I do think there’s a positive feedback cycle that happens where it starts to become more normalized.

Lisa Goodheart: And I think it especially matters for people in positions of authority to do that because you get a message from a judge, you know. So it matters in that direction particularly.

Renee Inomata: I also think that the attitudes about women who don’t have children – because I don’t have any children – have also changed. When I was growing up in the law firm, it was definitely, “Oh, well, Renee will do it because she doesn’t have to get home to anybody. So let’s give it to her.” I had partners who would volunteer me to their clients in an email, just CC, at 10:00 o’clock at night saying, “Oh, yeah, Renee can get to that. She’ll get it done tonight.” That to me has very much changed. I think most people would say that’s unacceptable.

Judge Squires-Lee: Let me say, I sense some emotion around some of these topics. Raise your hand if you felt that as well. [Majority raised their hands.] And now I’m just going to ask if we could talk about why. Anyone, Lily?

Lily Ramin Hall: I think we all work very, very hard to get to where we are. And you know there can be frustration with different issues we discussed. So, I think, yeah, it’s emotional. Because we work so hard. And we deserve a seat at the table, just like everyone else. Right?

Sarah Yun: So yeah, well, I think the topics that we’re discussing are inherently personal topics. And so, I think that’s part of it. And I also think people have different opinions and experiences. So that’s also probably part of it.

Lisa Goodheart: I think that the things we were talking about get in the way of being happy, and I think we all want to be happy as well as successful.

Sara Cable: Related to that, feeling fully comfortable in your own skin, and being your authentic self in all facets of your life is more important than you might expect it to be. I think it’s hard to do. And I also think the frustrating, enraging part of it is people sense inauthenticity. Then people think you’re not being genuine at work. And that also becomes a thing that works against you. So, it’s kind of this double-edged sword, and that’s enraging.

Natashia Tidwell: And I was thinking, when you were talking about the authenticity piece, women mentors, I remember working for a woman in my first job as a lawyer in the office. A Black woman who was the deputy chief of our unit was the first Black woman in power that I had seen who just lived her authentic self. You know, funny and just outgoing and sort of all of these things. I thought, I want that. But that was in D.C. And I feel like there was just a different vibe for Black people in D.C. So, I take that here to Boston and I wonder, how much of me is at work? Is it my performing self or my authentic self? And that struggle every day is exhausting and emotional.

Renee Inomata: For me some of the emotional piece – a little bit of self-doubt and a little bit of guilt. Having to relive situations. I keep thinking, [should] I have done something different? Did I feed into what happened? What else could I have been doing to help somebody else that I saw going through that? And that makes me emotional, because it’s still hard for me to say this wasn’t my fault.

Judge Squires-Lee: What resonates for me is being able to be your authentic self. When I talk to newer lawyers, I talk about how jurors know when somebody is not their authentic self. You can’t copy. You can’t be like somebody else. Because it’s inherent in our observations of people to know when they are not being their authentic self. I hear the emotion really is around women still feeling like sometimes they can’t be their authentic selves. Women of color, maybe, particularly so. And that’s sad.

Newer Attorneys’ Reflections on How Experienced Attorneys Can Be Most Supportive

Judge Squires-Lee: My next question is to the newer lawyers. What can we do? This is a mentorship profession. Our obligation is to train and mentor newer lawyers. What can we do to help make that easier for you all?

Lily Ramin Hall: Renee and I talked about this a little bit on the break. I think just setting the tone for everybody is one of the biggest things for senior attorneys to do – leading by example.

Emery Donatelle: To the extent that it’s possible, I think more senior attorneys looking for opportunities for junior attorneys to contribute. Certain judges have procedures where junior attorneys from both sides can take on an argument. And I think that those kinds of opportunities are exciting. Being a junior attorney, those types of [opportunities] can help someone see their career developing.

Jessica Rahmoune: One thing that I found to be really helpful is having someone with more experience chime in [to] lend credibility to what I’m saying by emphasizing what I said earlier or something. Sometimes I’ll have a series of calls with opposing counsel, where I’ve been trying to stress the importance of something, and they just sort of dismiss it. And then only when someone more senior joins the call, them going out of their way to say, like, we’ve already spoken to you about this. You spoke to [Attorney Rahmoune]. She had the authority to do this. So having that credibility lent to me in that moment, I think that is like a pivotal time for the relationship that I have with opposing counsel. So, I think people having your back in that way is extremely helpful.

Erika Richmond Walton: As I transition out of being a new attorney, it’s really empowering to feel like the training wheels are coming off. I filed my first lawsuit as lead counsel last year, and it was such a defining experience. My direct supervisor gave me the space to take the lead. You know, no one policed my theories. They merely proofread the complaint. I’ve been able to direct discovery without very much interference, and I’ve really learned a lot during this process.

Reflections on Desired Changes to the Legal Profession

Judge Squires-Lee: Thank you. I do want to turn to the future. We talked a little bit about how women can be better supports. But for everybody, those who have been lawyers forty years, thirty years, twenty years, five years. What changes do you hope to see in the legal profession in the next 10 to 20 years, especially for women?

Lisa Goodheart: I guess what I would like to see is more acceptance and familiarity and comfort across everyone in the profession, with different models of doing things, different ways of working. So that there is a place for everyone regardless of their style. Whatever they need to balance or juggle.

Lili Palacios-Baldwin: What I’d like to see in ten to twenty years is that we all think about our careers as being long and rich and flexible. And that we can take care of ourselves, our families, our side projects, or you know, whatever it is that we want to do in our lives, and still find success in the law, and that may be very different success than what we all thought success was when we were graduating law school.

Renee Inomata: I would love for law firm compensation systems to be fair. Success is really limited by the compensation structures that exist in law firms.

One of the questions was, has your view of success changed? When I started, my definition of success was what I thought was the universal definition of success in law firms: have a big book of business, you make partner, and you make a lot of money. definition now, for success, is providing clients with solutions to their problems. Understanding the people around you and being able to help them however you can. And making enough money to be able to do what you want to do, but not necessarily feeling like you need to make six times more than the person next to you.

Twenty years from now. I would hope that nobody ever has to make a conscious effort, carve out space, because it’s already there. People already have the options to pick what they want to do, how they want to do it, where they want to go, and the flexibility to move around.

Sara Cable: I totally co-sign that. The problem-solving part of it is huge, because I often think, what is a lawyer? What do I do? And I think lawyers, no matter what they do, they’re solving some sort of problem, either solving it in the context of the rules of litigation or solving it as part of the transaction. But this overlay of … you’re also supposed to make money is in tension with solving problems. I don’t get paid by the hour and hence I’m very efficient at solving problems. There’s a million other problems that are coming in the door, and the more time you spend on one, the less time you’re spending on an equally, if not more important, problem. So, I wish in ten to twenty years, the definition of success could be more pragmatically tied to problem solving.

Natashia Tidwell: Can I just follow up because it struck me – What I would like to see in ten or twenty years is the grace that’s extended to new people, to new people of color, to Black people in particular, who are new at the profession, and the ability to say I don’t know, or to make a mistake. Young Black lawyers or new lawyers don’t get the same grace to say “I don’t know,” or to make a mistake, or to have a learning curve at all.

And, I experienced that, being older when I graduated from law school. There was a lot that I didn’t know, but I was expected to know and wasn’t given [the grace] to figure that out. But I see now, with younger lawyers, Black lawyers, and other lawyers of color, just the grace to just not know, or to want to have a shadowing opportunity where it’s not billable work, where it’s just like, “Hey, can I just sit and sort of learn this?” Trying to look out for that person, and there just aren’t enough of us to be able to do that. And so, what I would like to see is that everyone gets that opportunity to be able to be uncertain, and the grace to learn.

Michelle-Kim Cohen: I don’t think this is specific to particularly the legal industry, but sort of echoing off of that, I do think that oftentimes it’s just this underlying culture of fear that we have. I’m afraid to say, “I need help.” I’m afraid to say, “I need time off.” And I would love to see in ten or twenty years that that culture of fear isn’t there. So that when people are having these conversations, it’s no longer seen as brave. Like, how brave of you to have taken a leap. How brave! But it’s more like it’s the norm.

Erika Richmond Walton: As far as nonprofit work is concerned, I would love more funding. But less paternalism. At LCR, we do have a model where we work closely with communities that we serve, and a lot of what we decide to pursue is based on what they tell us that they need. But I have learned in doing this work that it’s not the norm. As far as other organizations are concerned, they decide what is important, and then they impose their will or ideas on these communities that ultimately have to deal with the consequences.

Reflections on Increasingly Important Skills and Qualities

Judge Squires-Lee: I want to ask about what skills or qualities will define the next generation. What skills and abilities need to adjust and adapt to the world that we’re facing, heading into the middle of the 21st century?

Renee Inomata: I would throw this out there: If you’re trying to solve problems efficiently and effectively, you need self-awareness, emotional intelligence, and an incredible ability to listen.

Lili Palacios-Baldwin: When I started at Tufts, I participated in an organization which I still participate in – the National Association of College and University Attorneys. There was a lawyer who is very seasoned in that group who taught me to focus on the rule of professional conduct which defines the role of the lawyer as advisor. I’ve focused on it throughout my career, and actually, when I think about the increased use of Artificial Intelligence in the profession, I question whether AI can do what an advisor really does. That is, not just providing legal advice, but considering moral, economic, social, and political factors that may need to be interwoven into that advice. I will add that the one skill that I think is going to continue to be pivotal is deep, deep listening, which I don’t think a lot of people engage in regularly.

Sara Cable: I would say working at the Attorney General’s Office has taught me this. To listen to those who aren’t the ones you typically hear from, the folks who are affected, or the folks who are afraid to speak up and have something meaningful to say. And I have learned when you’re having meetings with a big group of people, you shut your mouth, and you create opportunities for others to speak. And act a moderator or someone who could ask open ended questions, solicit people who haven’t spoken up and give them time and space.

Jessica Rahmoune: What I’m hearing is really resonating with me, like a value shift that seems so much more humane, and respects people’s humanity. I think oftentimes, especially in this profession, it’s easy to sort of split yourself as like – you are a lawyer, and then you are also this other person. And so what I’m hearing is that we’re trying to encourage people to sort of merge the two, and that that, in turn, hopefully will make us better lawyers.

Advice for the Next Generation of Attorneys

Judge Squires-Lee: Alright, we’re going to turn the last question, which is, if you could give one piece of advice to the next generation, or ask for one piece of advice from a previous generation, what would it be? So let that percolate and we’ll give everybody a chance to weigh in on that.

Lisa Goodheart: This is a hard one, I must say. I would just want to encourage the next generation to have the attitude that you have so much to offer, and you are the future, and the great lawyers of the next generation are you and among you. So have the confidence to ask for what you want, and take what you need, and shape your work environment so that you’re in a position to offer everything you have to offer.

Natashia Tidwell: One piece of advice that applies both to the legal profession, and outside of that, is don’t compare your inside to someone else’s outside. There are so many people who project that they just got it all figured out. But when you dig a little deeper you just have to remind yourself that whatever they’re projecting, you don’t know what’s going on. So that’s what I try to do, but it’s very difficult.

Lili Palacios-Baldwin: I’ll share [this] – You can’t show up for anyone or anything until you show up for yourself first. There’s a lot more to say about that but that’s advice that I would give to lawyers and non-lawyers. It’s just about self-leadership, in my view, which I have to be honest, I don’t think I fully learned until I was in my late forties.

Emery Donatelle: I think, just reflecting on the past four years, and how I’ve grown and changed since then, I think I would probably say that there’s not too much that you can’t learn. A lot of people I feel give off kind of this aura of knowing everything all the time, which I would love to have that aura. But you can’t know everything all the time, and not everything comes naturally to everyone.

Catherine Walker-Jacks: How do you build a sustainable career path for yourself, and not let short term ambition cause you to burn out and having the hills and valleys – how to navigate that. And I think that looks different for everyone, and I’ve gotten a lot of insights from you all, even just today. But I think that would be the advice that I would seek: how to build a long-term sustainable career in law.

Jessica Rahmoune: How to build a practice that feels sustainable, but also aligned with your values, and at the same time juggling developing other parts of your life. So that your career doesn’t just become your entire being. And something that I’m still trying to balance because I know that I’m someone who doesn’t want to be just a lawyer. I want to be a full-fledged person that does other things outside of the hours.

Renee Inomata: Take time for yourself. So that you can actually know what your authentic self actually is, and then build your sisterhood, the people in that group. That board of advisors might change over time, depending on what your needs are and where you are in life, but you know, have the humility to be able to pull people together that you can trust, to ask questions and ask the advice and be candid with you, even if it’s not something that you’d like.

Michelle-Kim Cohen: My advice would probably be to learn to lead with grace and extend that grace to yourself, which is going to be something that will challenge you throughout your career. And I think, when in doubt about “capital letter d” decisions, you know, follow the joy. Don’t follow the fear.

Erika Richmond Walton: Failure happens, and it’s not the end of the world. We really need to destigmatize failure as a profession. So, candidly speaking, I did not pass the bar the first time, and when I found out I really had no idea how I was going to go on. How am I going to live my life, leave my house, or, you know, have people see me? Like, how am I going live this down? And now, you know, five years later, I’ve really done some cool stuff that I’m proud of—that I wouldn’t have been able to do it I gave up. And I didn’t ruin my career. I bounced back. And I think that it’s really about how you deal with that failure, and whether you learn a lesson from it.

Judge Squires-Lee: My advice. When I first got on the bench we were spoken to by Chief Justice Gants. He said, sometimes you will have to make a decision where there is no controlling precedent, and the law is not clear, and the parties are arguing, and there is nothing to guide you. In those situations, just do the right thing.

So, my advice for everyone is just do the right thing, at every juncture, at all times.

So we end.

Roundtable Participants

Front Row (L-R)
Renee Inomata, Partner, Casner & Edwards, LLP
Michelle-Kim Cohen, Deputy General Counsel, Cambium Learning Group
Erika Richmond Walton, Litigation Fellow, Lawyers for Civil Rights
Lisa C. Goodheart, Partner, Fitch Law Partners LLP
Lili Palacios-Baldwin, Deputy General Counsel for Labor, Employment and Litigation, Office of General Counsel, Tufts University
Sara Cable, Deputy Attorney General, Office of the Massachusetts Attorney General

Back Row (L-R)
Marina Pullertis, Assistant Attorney General, Office of the Massachusetts Attorney General, BBJ Board of Editors.
The Hon. Diane Rubin, Massachusetts Land Court, BBJ Board of Editors
Catherine Walker Jacks, Judicial Law Clerk, U.S. Courts of Appeals
Natashia Tidwell, Partner, Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky, and Popeo
The Hon. Debra Squires-Lee, Massachusetts Superior Court, BBJ Co-Chair 2023-2025
Lily Ramin Hall, Associate, Cooley LLP
Jessica Rahmoune, Assistant Attorney General, Office of the Massachusetts Attorney General
Emery Donatelle, Assistant District Attorney, General Felony Unit, Suffolk County District Attorney’s Office
Sarah Yun, Associate, Sugarman